Kenny Schachter interviewed by Yulia Belousova for Forbes Life Russia
Yulia Belousova: You started your career in the art world as an outsider, can you briefly go over that story again?
Kenny Schachter: With a degree in philosophy and political science from George Washington University in 1984, my professional prospects were, at best, grim; so, I headed to Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law to hide from the job market with no intent to practice. I lied to my family and bosses that I was in night school (there was none at Cardozo) and worked a series of full-time jobs from the clerk on the floor of the American Stock Exchange to contributing a chapter in a textbook on malpractice relating to plastic surgeries gone awry. I also took a sculpting and drawing class in between at the School of Visual Arts (where I am beginning to teach). I wanted to pursue a career that was creative and entrepreneurial but didn’t have a clue what that might look like. I was only certain what I didn’t want: a tedious routine that would last a lifetime of regret.
I figured that might be a designer in the fashion industry and handed out a few hundred resumes in the garment district in midtown, under closed doors when no one was there, before landing a job for a tie designer. Traveling the east coast with two ginormous suitcases like a hapless Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman, all I managed to do was get lost—I may have the world’s worst sense of direction, plus the fact that I’d have difficulties selling crack to a crackhead. After passing the bar exam (by some act of God?), without having attended classes, I worked as a part-time legal writer.
Procrastinating between jobs in 1988, I tagged along with a friend to Andy Warhol’s estate sale at Sotheby’s and rather than the boatload of Warhols I expected was his vast collection of contemporary art (and jewelry and cookie jars, among countless other things), he was the consummate hoarder’s hoarder. It was a revelation. Prior to that occasion, I had no notion that art was bought and sold and had never entered a gallery (I didn’t know they existed); chalk it up to an isolated childhood in Long Island, though I regularly visited the East Building of the National Gallery of Art during college.
Immediately after the experience, I caught sight of a Cy Twombly print exhibition at Hirschl & Adler Gallery and convinced Chase Bank to give me an unsecured loan with which to purchase one—you should have seen the look of horror on the banker’s face when I asked, but I was already a lawyer and after a call from the managing attorney at the office in which I worked, he relented. I immediately became a dealer-to-dealer dealer, buying and selling artworks at auction and to galleries as I neither had the patience nor constitution to work with private collectors convincing them of anything yet purchasing something as personal as art.
After organizing a few dozen group exhibitions with emerging artists in abandoned storefronts throughout the 1990s to early the 2000s when I moved to London (2004), art became a bigger business than the business world I initially ran away from. Like an idiot-idiot savant, I was so naïve, I ended up showcasing, early on, the work of artists that ended up multi-million dollar sellers like abstract painters Joe Bradley, Cecily Brown and Wade Guyton, who’s computer printed canvases reached a record of over $6m. And though I began teaching art (in order to learn it, which hasn’t changed) and writing on the subject from an insider’s viewpoint in the trenches, I always made art and used the group shows I curated as a subtext to add my own art into the mix. Now I have had an exhibit of my own art at Blum & Poe Gallery, one of the greatest galleries in the contemporary art world.
YB: The artworld is so hot right now and everyone wants to participate in it, what’s going on?
KS: Art was the last and least exploited creative industry because it historically painted itself (sorry for pun) into a corner by making itself seem unknowable except for smart, i.e. rich people, and therefore expensive. But after fashion got done to death, art was all that was left for a starving media hungry for content and in spite of itself, art became the next "thing". Now every celebrity from Kanye to Brad Pitt want a piece of it and have (unfortunately) begun to make art themselves.
YB: You said that it’s good that art became popular, brands raise their value through PR via art x brands collaborations, why is it any good for us?
KS: Good? I never said that. It just is. It's not good or bad. It's just a present day art-fact. But I wouldn't call it art, it's not in fact, it's a hybrid of fashion, luxury goods and art. I for one prefer old fashion drawings (the cheapest, most accessible road into great art), paintings and sculptures, though I make digital video art and computer-manipulated photos. What I did say is anything that increases the audience, no matter how crass, commercial or shallow is potentially good as some of that audience may actually spill over to attract interest to real art. Ha, ha.
YB: What are the current trends in the market?
KS: Current trends are black and female artists making up for years of prejudice and racism in art and society. What artists to collect? Artists to collect? I only collect art I love and would NEVER suggest buying simply as an investment, you will never win that game. You just won't. I suggest buying what you care about but only after someone you trust (there aren't many in today's art world) puts a selection in front of you, if you aren't experienced to know yourself. Art is a slow burning process that takes a lifetime to learn, that is the fun and beauty of it. After thirty years, I am still learning myself. But I won't engage in a game of naming names, I am not a stock picker, investment advisor or asset allocator. If you want to know my opinion, come visit my house in New York and see my collection or get in touch. I am happy to discuss which artists I deeply care about. I don't advise clients; I collect only on behalf of myself and sell to other dealers or at auction, but I am always happy to share information. Which makes me all but unique in the art world.
YB: Does for you a line exists between buyers and collectors? Do black lists still exist? Who would you never sell a piece of art?
KS: I would sell art to anyone who's money my bank would except. But then again, I don't sell to private collectors, mainly dealers and through auction: I recently had an online sale of 116 lots at Sotheby's and have another coming up in the Spring. There is no such thing as collectors anymore. I don't know a single person in the art world that hasn't at one point or another sold a work of art in addition to buying. I call them spec-u-lectors. Some are worse than others. Yes, black lists exist 100%, if you buy a work from a gallery and sell it too soon, you will no longer be able to buy from them and rightfully so.
YB: Do you tell your collectors that liquidity of art is a myth? What promises do you give them to sell a work?
KS: I DON'T PROMISE ANYTHING TO ANYONE. EVER. But yes, art is not liquid unless it is the most desirable artist in the market. Even Picasso, at the right price, is hard to sell. If you want to go in and out swiftly, buy stocks NOT art.
YB: Grey market, money laundry, tax reductions – can you tell us a bit how it works, and maybe readers will be able to participate?
KS: Ha, you want me to teach people how to launder money? Buy a Picasso with black money and stick it on your private plane or in a tax-free storage facility (freeport), then sell it on at a later date. Tax reductions? Open a private museum in the USA, and as a US taxpayer, your art and all the associative costs become tax-deductible. I am an artist, writer, teacher, curator, and collector, not a criminal advisor. Ha.
YB: Do you have any Russian collectors? What do they buy, if any? Why is Eastern European Art almost non-existent on the market, and will it ever change? Politics?
KS: I have 0 collectors, sorry, there are barely any collectors in the UK. Collecting culture runs deep in countries like Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, the USA, France. I cannot explain why, but there are also many in Russia and Eastern Europe, they just collect at their own pace, the things that interest them. I only know what I know (and that's not much), and none of us can be an expert in everything. But what makes me different is that I admit my shortcomings.
YB: We agree on the point that art became a lifestyle - since when, why, and how?
KS: Art became a lifestyle only in the last 25 years with an increase in popularity of art, audience, the art world, art fairs, internet, Instagram, blah blah. What is mainstream art nowadays? Mainstream art is shitty street art, anything that appeals to kids and doesn't require much thinking about, unfortunately. But some of these people will actually fall in love with good art, so I can't complain. But I will when given the chance. Did you sell anything to Di Caprio or Kanye jet? Nooooooooo. Di Caprio sells more art than me. He became an art flipper. Why? Because he can, likes the glamor and excitement and casino like mentality. But that is not an art lover. That is an art player, two entirely different things. I don't think Kanye collects art, but he did say he would trade two of his Grammy awards to be taken seriously in the art world. Unfortunately, it will never happen. But then he found God and the church, so it doesn't matter for him anymore. ART IS A LIFE-LONG COMMITMENT. Not a celebrity diversion. Is it a way of social and intellectual integrity, or do they really believe in what they buy? Art is a lot of things to a lot of people: social cachet, showing off, hanging bags of money on the wall, it's a chemical addiction, it's also dedication and commitment. We don't own art, it owns us, we are only custodians of art charged with a responsibility to preserve it and safe keep it.
YB: How to make money as an art-critic?
KS: You can't.
YB: Artist?
KS: Work, work, work, and have something to say and be good and prepared to sacrifice your life, family, and happiness.
YB: Curator?
KS: Nope, you can't either.
YB: How to make money if not to escape the art world?
KS: You sell art you make some money, you keep good art, over time, you create wealth.
YB: The newest gossip of the art world that is not official yet?
KS: Pff. Are you kidding? I don't roll like that, but keep following the story of art trickster Inigo Philbrick, a classic tale of youth gone bad, for greed, quick profit, high living coupled with a real love of art. A tragic comedy with lessons for us all. I have written a major piece on it based on losing a lot of money being taken in myself. Anything too good to be true is too good to be true. Trust me.
YB: Gagosian has built an empire that he can rule for another 10-15 years. Who will take over Gagosian once he is not in the business anymore? 10 to 15 years?
KS: He is already mid 70s, time is runing quickly. No one can succeed Larry G., the only self-made of the mega dealers, bedsides Arne Glimcher, founder of Pace Gallery and Bill Acquavella Gallery. We await the identity of the next paradigm shifter, but Gagosian will not survive the demise of its founder, you heard it here first.
YB: What type of art to collect on a shoestring?
KS: Art is cheap. You can find it on Instagram or an art school for under $1,000 easily, sometimes much less. Or buy prints and drawings, they are cheap and a great way to experience art.
YB: Millennials are looking for experiences, what art would you sell to them? Wasting time on trying to educate them or selling whatever the client buys?
KS: Neither, I would suggest becoming an Instagram addict like me. You can learn and access so much fantasitc informaiton that never used to be available, and look at online auctions of Sotheby's, Christie's and Phillips (Russian owned); when I have my online auctions, there are no reserves, meaning any bid will win if it's the highest and you can pick up art for a few hundred bucks. My loss is your gain.
YB: Do you sell on Instagram? To what extent? Did it happen that some piece was given back?
KS: I have found so, so, so much great art on Instagram. Just find cool people and follow their followers and dig. I sold art for hundreds of thousands on Instagram. My kids think I am nuts for spending so much time on Instagram, but then I won best art Instagram site of the year in 2019, and tough shit on them. I learn so much and don't be shy: Direct Message people with any questions, I have met so many people that way and respond to each and every person that contacts me--try it.
YB: What are the worst things that happened to you after revealing some of the hidden trues about the art market?
KS: I have had death threats, lawsuit threats, fists thrown at me. Everyone complains about fake news but the art world prefers lies. When you tell the truth, like I always try and do, it's more threatening to some than a gun. But I don't care. I am prepared for anything.
YB: Why do you collect so much (please, don’t take it personally) *crap* along the way with art? Cheese?
KS: F you! My crap is my love, my joy: one person's crap is another's jewels. I call it crap because I don't take myself too seriously like most in the art world. But I buy what I love, what I care about, what is meaningful to me. And to be honest, NONE of it is crap. It enriches my life. I look at it all every day, and medical research indicates living with art actually extends your life. So my "crap" is, in effect, the secret to eternal youth.
YB: Is there any piece that you sold from your collection that you regret now?
KS: I need to be surrounded by art, but I never get too attached to specific things, as long as there is something to replace it. I am an ascetic materialist, i.e., I am addicted to great things but attached to nothing.
YB: What was your first purchase as a collector?
KS: Some piece of crap. Ha, I always contradict myself and just kidding. A print by the master Cy Twombly. Which I still have.
YB: The best/the worst piece you bought?
KS: I can't make such simple evaluations. I bought some stuff that went down 95% in value, but maybe I like it more now, as the money no longer figures into the enterprise, it's now fully just the art for the art's sake.
YB: Cars, costumes – where do you buy all of these? Where do you put it? Cheese, why?
KS: I just eat cheese I don't collect it that would stink. What else you’d like to collect but didn’t start yet? I buy stuff online, in galleries, from artists, from auctions. I put it in storage in Zurich, London, and New York, but I am trying to pare down, let go of stuff, even as I continue to buy more. Collecting contemporary art is like inserting yourself in the new of the day. It's a means of dialogue, communication with your peers on social, political, and economic issues of our times. Like living amidst the pages of a newspaper, surrounded by beauty and ugliness. One person's repulsion is another's seduction. I no longer collect cars as I walk everywhere and never have occasion to drive or have space to visually enjoy the aesthetics of the industrial design of cars and the smells. I used to have one under my desk in London now I moved to New York, and that is no longer possible. But I admit to a 1972 911 Porshe in Albert blue in the garage of my rental house in New York City, a guilty pleasure even if I never use it.
YB: For someone who just graduated from an art school/curatorial studies – what would you recommend? An internship at what gallery, auction house, artists studio.. ? If a young professional gets a job in an A-list gallery that is a synonym to slavery – to proceed for a CV-line and promising career or to quit?
KS: Do anything but work, work work. Spend your time finding out exactly what your passion is and pursue it till you die. Never compromise or capitulate. Every day there is something to learn, read and see as much as humanly possible, then share what you gathered. It's only fair. Galleries, auction houses, artists studios, as Malcolm X said: By any means necessary. As the Nike ad said: Just do it. Don't let anything or anyone get in the way.
YB: We’ve got over 300 art fairs, hundreds of Biennale’s, private foundations – what could be a new form that the art world needs right now?
KS: Art fairs are extraordinarily helpful and a great resource. Instagram hasn't been exploited to the fullest yet its a revolutionary new model, a wrecking ball smashing the fake hierarchies of the art world democratizing art like never before. Take advantage of what is right now in front of you and free. The rest hasn't been invented yet, and I am not a fortune teller.
YB: You mentioned that the art world became something completely different than it was 15 years ago, what is different by now?
KS: It’s bigger, easier to access, and attracting more makers, buyers, sellers, and thinkers than ever before. There has been more growth in the past 25 years than the previous 250. Mostly it is the internet and the ease of access that has resulted. When I started, the only way to communicate visually was by sending photographic slides in the mail. Now simply pressing send on your phone has forever changed the way we see, access, and experience art. Take advantage of what is at your fingertips: the world. Then go and physically see it and meet the people, nothing ever, not virtual or otherwise will substitute for the physical object or a real person. Though robots would be admittedly easier to deal with than a lot of people I know.
YB: What’s the most exciting project for you planned for 2020?
KS: I am self-taught in art, and I just got a teaching job at New York's School of Visual Arts, one of the most prestigious art institutions after teaching for 8 years in the graduate department of the University of Zurich and the show I mentioned at Blum & Poe, one of the most prestigious galleries in the contemporary art world, I am lucky and appreciative to have such opportunities and to have won art writer of the year elected by my peers: to have an audience has been hard-fought and I will be forever grateful for the opportunities. Thus it's my obligation to share everything I have learned with anyone who gives a shit enough to find out. Try me.
Yulia Belousova: You started your career in the art world as an outsider, can you briefly go over that story again?
Kenny Schachter: With a degree in philosophy and political science from George Washington University in 1984, my professional prospects were, at best, grim; so, I headed to Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law to hide from the job market with no intent to practice. I lied to my family and bosses that I was in night school (there was none at Cardozo) and worked a series of full-time jobs from the clerk on the floor of the American Stock Exchange to contributing a chapter in a textbook on malpractice relating to plastic surgeries gone awry. I also took a sculpting and drawing class in between at the School of Visual Arts (where I am beginning to teach). I wanted to pursue a career that was creative and entrepreneurial but didn’t have a clue what that might look like. I was only certain what I didn’t want: a tedious routine that would last a lifetime of regret.
I figured that might be a designer in the fashion industry and handed out a few hundred resumes in the garment district in midtown, under closed doors when no one was there, before landing a job for a tie designer. Traveling the east coast with two ginormous suitcases like a hapless Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman, all I managed to do was get lost—I may have the world’s worst sense of direction, plus the fact that I’d have difficulties selling crack to a crackhead. After passing the bar exam (by some act of God?), without having attended classes, I worked as a part-time legal writer.
Procrastinating between jobs in 1988, I tagged along with a friend to Andy Warhol’s estate sale at Sotheby’s and rather than the boatload of Warhols I expected was his vast collection of contemporary art (and jewelry and cookie jars, among countless other things), he was the consummate hoarder’s hoarder. It was a revelation. Prior to that occasion, I had no notion that art was bought and sold and had never entered a gallery (I didn’t know they existed); chalk it up to an isolated childhood in Long Island, though I regularly visited the East Building of the National Gallery of Art during college.
Immediately after the experience, I caught sight of a Cy Twombly print exhibition at Hirschl & Adler Gallery and convinced Chase Bank to give me an unsecured loan with which to purchase one—you should have seen the look of horror on the banker’s face when I asked, but I was already a lawyer and after a call from the managing attorney at the office in which I worked, he relented. I immediately became a dealer-to-dealer dealer, buying and selling artworks at auction and to galleries as I neither had the patience nor constitution to work with private collectors convincing them of anything yet purchasing something as personal as art.
After organizing a few dozen group exhibitions with emerging artists in abandoned storefronts throughout the 1990s to early the 2000s when I moved to London (2004), art became a bigger business than the business world I initially ran away from. Like an idiot-idiot savant, I was so naïve, I ended up showcasing, early on, the work of artists that ended up multi-million dollar sellers like abstract painters Joe Bradley, Cecily Brown and Wade Guyton, who’s computer printed canvases reached a record of over $6m. And though I began teaching art (in order to learn it, which hasn’t changed) and writing on the subject from an insider’s viewpoint in the trenches, I always made art and used the group shows I curated as a subtext to add my own art into the mix. Now I have had an exhibit of my own art at Blum & Poe Gallery, one of the greatest galleries in the contemporary art world.
YB: The artworld is so hot right now and everyone wants to participate in it, what’s going on?
KS: Art was the last and least exploited creative industry because it historically painted itself (sorry for pun) into a corner by making itself seem unknowable except for smart, i.e. rich people, and therefore expensive. But after fashion got done to death, art was all that was left for a starving media hungry for content and in spite of itself, art became the next "thing". Now every celebrity from Kanye to Brad Pitt want a piece of it and have (unfortunately) begun to make art themselves.
YB: You said that it’s good that art became popular, brands raise their value through PR via art x brands collaborations, why is it any good for us?
KS: Good? I never said that. It just is. It's not good or bad. It's just a present day art-fact. But I wouldn't call it art, it's not in fact, it's a hybrid of fashion, luxury goods and art. I for one prefer old fashion drawings (the cheapest, most accessible road into great art), paintings and sculptures, though I make digital video art and computer-manipulated photos. What I did say is anything that increases the audience, no matter how crass, commercial or shallow is potentially good as some of that audience may actually spill over to attract interest to real art. Ha, ha.
YB: What are the current trends in the market?
KS: Current trends are black and female artists making up for years of prejudice and racism in art and society. What artists to collect? Artists to collect? I only collect art I love and would NEVER suggest buying simply as an investment, you will never win that game. You just won't. I suggest buying what you care about but only after someone you trust (there aren't many in today's art world) puts a selection in front of you, if you aren't experienced to know yourself. Art is a slow burning process that takes a lifetime to learn, that is the fun and beauty of it. After thirty years, I am still learning myself. But I won't engage in a game of naming names, I am not a stock picker, investment advisor or asset allocator. If you want to know my opinion, come visit my house in New York and see my collection or get in touch. I am happy to discuss which artists I deeply care about. I don't advise clients; I collect only on behalf of myself and sell to other dealers or at auction, but I am always happy to share information. Which makes me all but unique in the art world.
YB: Does for you a line exists between buyers and collectors? Do black lists still exist? Who would you never sell a piece of art?
KS: I would sell art to anyone who's money my bank would except. But then again, I don't sell to private collectors, mainly dealers and through auction: I recently had an online sale of 116 lots at Sotheby's and have another coming up in the Spring. There is no such thing as collectors anymore. I don't know a single person in the art world that hasn't at one point or another sold a work of art in addition to buying. I call them spec-u-lectors. Some are worse than others. Yes, black lists exist 100%, if you buy a work from a gallery and sell it too soon, you will no longer be able to buy from them and rightfully so.
YB: Do you tell your collectors that liquidity of art is a myth? What promises do you give them to sell a work?
KS: I DON'T PROMISE ANYTHING TO ANYONE. EVER. But yes, art is not liquid unless it is the most desirable artist in the market. Even Picasso, at the right price, is hard to sell. If you want to go in and out swiftly, buy stocks NOT art.
YB: Grey market, money laundry, tax reductions – can you tell us a bit how it works, and maybe readers will be able to participate?
KS: Ha, you want me to teach people how to launder money? Buy a Picasso with black money and stick it on your private plane or in a tax-free storage facility (freeport), then sell it on at a later date. Tax reductions? Open a private museum in the USA, and as a US taxpayer, your art and all the associative costs become tax-deductible. I am an artist, writer, teacher, curator, and collector, not a criminal advisor. Ha.
YB: Do you have any Russian collectors? What do they buy, if any? Why is Eastern European Art almost non-existent on the market, and will it ever change? Politics?
KS: I have 0 collectors, sorry, there are barely any collectors in the UK. Collecting culture runs deep in countries like Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, the USA, France. I cannot explain why, but there are also many in Russia and Eastern Europe, they just collect at their own pace, the things that interest them. I only know what I know (and that's not much), and none of us can be an expert in everything. But what makes me different is that I admit my shortcomings.
YB: We agree on the point that art became a lifestyle - since when, why, and how?
KS: Art became a lifestyle only in the last 25 years with an increase in popularity of art, audience, the art world, art fairs, internet, Instagram, blah blah. What is mainstream art nowadays? Mainstream art is shitty street art, anything that appeals to kids and doesn't require much thinking about, unfortunately. But some of these people will actually fall in love with good art, so I can't complain. But I will when given the chance. Did you sell anything to Di Caprio or Kanye jet? Nooooooooo. Di Caprio sells more art than me. He became an art flipper. Why? Because he can, likes the glamor and excitement and casino like mentality. But that is not an art lover. That is an art player, two entirely different things. I don't think Kanye collects art, but he did say he would trade two of his Grammy awards to be taken seriously in the art world. Unfortunately, it will never happen. But then he found God and the church, so it doesn't matter for him anymore. ART IS A LIFE-LONG COMMITMENT. Not a celebrity diversion. Is it a way of social and intellectual integrity, or do they really believe in what they buy? Art is a lot of things to a lot of people: social cachet, showing off, hanging bags of money on the wall, it's a chemical addiction, it's also dedication and commitment. We don't own art, it owns us, we are only custodians of art charged with a responsibility to preserve it and safe keep it.
YB: How to make money as an art-critic?
KS: You can't.
YB: Artist?
KS: Work, work, work, and have something to say and be good and prepared to sacrifice your life, family, and happiness.
YB: Curator?
KS: Nope, you can't either.
YB: How to make money if not to escape the art world?
KS: You sell art you make some money, you keep good art, over time, you create wealth.
YB: The newest gossip of the art world that is not official yet?
KS: Pff. Are you kidding? I don't roll like that, but keep following the story of art trickster Inigo Philbrick, a classic tale of youth gone bad, for greed, quick profit, high living coupled with a real love of art. A tragic comedy with lessons for us all. I have written a major piece on it based on losing a lot of money being taken in myself. Anything too good to be true is too good to be true. Trust me.
YB: Gagosian has built an empire that he can rule for another 10-15 years. Who will take over Gagosian once he is not in the business anymore? 10 to 15 years?
KS: He is already mid 70s, time is runing quickly. No one can succeed Larry G., the only self-made of the mega dealers, bedsides Arne Glimcher, founder of Pace Gallery and Bill Acquavella Gallery. We await the identity of the next paradigm shifter, but Gagosian will not survive the demise of its founder, you heard it here first.
YB: What type of art to collect on a shoestring?
KS: Art is cheap. You can find it on Instagram or an art school for under $1,000 easily, sometimes much less. Or buy prints and drawings, they are cheap and a great way to experience art.
YB: Millennials are looking for experiences, what art would you sell to them? Wasting time on trying to educate them or selling whatever the client buys?
KS: Neither, I would suggest becoming an Instagram addict like me. You can learn and access so much fantasitc informaiton that never used to be available, and look at online auctions of Sotheby's, Christie's and Phillips (Russian owned); when I have my online auctions, there are no reserves, meaning any bid will win if it's the highest and you can pick up art for a few hundred bucks. My loss is your gain.
YB: Do you sell on Instagram? To what extent? Did it happen that some piece was given back?
KS: I have found so, so, so much great art on Instagram. Just find cool people and follow their followers and dig. I sold art for hundreds of thousands on Instagram. My kids think I am nuts for spending so much time on Instagram, but then I won best art Instagram site of the year in 2019, and tough shit on them. I learn so much and don't be shy: Direct Message people with any questions, I have met so many people that way and respond to each and every person that contacts me--try it.
YB: What are the worst things that happened to you after revealing some of the hidden trues about the art market?
KS: I have had death threats, lawsuit threats, fists thrown at me. Everyone complains about fake news but the art world prefers lies. When you tell the truth, like I always try and do, it's more threatening to some than a gun. But I don't care. I am prepared for anything.
YB: Why do you collect so much (please, don’t take it personally) *crap* along the way with art? Cheese?
KS: F you! My crap is my love, my joy: one person's crap is another's jewels. I call it crap because I don't take myself too seriously like most in the art world. But I buy what I love, what I care about, what is meaningful to me. And to be honest, NONE of it is crap. It enriches my life. I look at it all every day, and medical research indicates living with art actually extends your life. So my "crap" is, in effect, the secret to eternal youth.
YB: Is there any piece that you sold from your collection that you regret now?
KS: I need to be surrounded by art, but I never get too attached to specific things, as long as there is something to replace it. I am an ascetic materialist, i.e., I am addicted to great things but attached to nothing.
YB: What was your first purchase as a collector?
KS: Some piece of crap. Ha, I always contradict myself and just kidding. A print by the master Cy Twombly. Which I still have.
YB: The best/the worst piece you bought?
KS: I can't make such simple evaluations. I bought some stuff that went down 95% in value, but maybe I like it more now, as the money no longer figures into the enterprise, it's now fully just the art for the art's sake.
YB: Cars, costumes – where do you buy all of these? Where do you put it? Cheese, why?
KS: I just eat cheese I don't collect it that would stink. What else you’d like to collect but didn’t start yet? I buy stuff online, in galleries, from artists, from auctions. I put it in storage in Zurich, London, and New York, but I am trying to pare down, let go of stuff, even as I continue to buy more. Collecting contemporary art is like inserting yourself in the new of the day. It's a means of dialogue, communication with your peers on social, political, and economic issues of our times. Like living amidst the pages of a newspaper, surrounded by beauty and ugliness. One person's repulsion is another's seduction. I no longer collect cars as I walk everywhere and never have occasion to drive or have space to visually enjoy the aesthetics of the industrial design of cars and the smells. I used to have one under my desk in London now I moved to New York, and that is no longer possible. But I admit to a 1972 911 Porshe in Albert blue in the garage of my rental house in New York City, a guilty pleasure even if I never use it.
YB: For someone who just graduated from an art school/curatorial studies – what would you recommend? An internship at what gallery, auction house, artists studio.. ? If a young professional gets a job in an A-list gallery that is a synonym to slavery – to proceed for a CV-line and promising career or to quit?
KS: Do anything but work, work work. Spend your time finding out exactly what your passion is and pursue it till you die. Never compromise or capitulate. Every day there is something to learn, read and see as much as humanly possible, then share what you gathered. It's only fair. Galleries, auction houses, artists studios, as Malcolm X said: By any means necessary. As the Nike ad said: Just do it. Don't let anything or anyone get in the way.
YB: We’ve got over 300 art fairs, hundreds of Biennale’s, private foundations – what could be a new form that the art world needs right now?
KS: Art fairs are extraordinarily helpful and a great resource. Instagram hasn't been exploited to the fullest yet its a revolutionary new model, a wrecking ball smashing the fake hierarchies of the art world democratizing art like never before. Take advantage of what is right now in front of you and free. The rest hasn't been invented yet, and I am not a fortune teller.
YB: You mentioned that the art world became something completely different than it was 15 years ago, what is different by now?
KS: It’s bigger, easier to access, and attracting more makers, buyers, sellers, and thinkers than ever before. There has been more growth in the past 25 years than the previous 250. Mostly it is the internet and the ease of access that has resulted. When I started, the only way to communicate visually was by sending photographic slides in the mail. Now simply pressing send on your phone has forever changed the way we see, access, and experience art. Take advantage of what is at your fingertips: the world. Then go and physically see it and meet the people, nothing ever, not virtual or otherwise will substitute for the physical object or a real person. Though robots would be admittedly easier to deal with than a lot of people I know.
YB: What’s the most exciting project for you planned for 2020?
KS: I am self-taught in art, and I just got a teaching job at New York's School of Visual Arts, one of the most prestigious art institutions after teaching for 8 years in the graduate department of the University of Zurich and the show I mentioned at Blum & Poe, one of the most prestigious galleries in the contemporary art world, I am lucky and appreciative to have such opportunities and to have won art writer of the year elected by my peers: to have an audience has been hard-fought and I will be forever grateful for the opportunities. Thus it's my obligation to share everything I have learned with anyone who gives a shit enough to find out. Try me.